Mpofu asks Zondo to control Gordhan as cross-examination gets heated


Advocate Dali Mpofu is taking Public Enterprises Minister Pravin Gordhan on about his change of statements on meeting the Guptas.

Tom Moyane’s lawyer Dali Mpofu at the state capture commission on Monday, 30 November 2020. Picture: Xanderleigh Dookey Makhaza/EWN

JOHANNESBURG – Advocate Dali Mpofu is taking Public Enterprises Minister Pravin Gordhan on about his change of statements on meeting the Guptas.

Mpofu is representing former South African Revenue Service (Sars) Commissioner Tom Moyane, who was granted permission to cross-examine Gordhan.

He asked Gordhan if he agreed that meeting the Guptas was one of the hallmarks of state capture in South Africa and Gordhan said that the circumstances must be taken into account.

Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo is mediating a showdown between Mpofu and Gordhan.

Gordhan: “I disclosed it to you. If I wanted to hide it, I could have hidden it but I disclosed it, voluntarily.”

Mpofu: “You see chair, I ask you to please control this witness because if he’s going to give unnecessary verbiage on top of the answer, then I’m going to be forced to interrupt him.”

GALLERY: Tom Moyane and Pravin Gordhan face off at Zondo Inquiry

The sparring between Mpofu and Gordhan continues and this time it’s about Gordan’s change of statements on meeting the Guptas.

Mpofu: “When you did your first statement to the commission, you still had forgotten meeting the Guptas correct?”

To which Gordhan replied: “I’ll check during lunchtime and come back.”

Mpofu: “But when you did your second statement, you had been reminded you say?”

Gordhan: “As I say, I’ll check during lunchtime.”

But Gordhan was not taking the punches lying down.

“I don’t think Mr Mpofu is helping this particular set of exchanges with throw away remarks like that.”

Gordhan maintains that Moyane wanted him to resign so he could advance state capture.


Deputy Chief Justice Raymond Zondo ruled that Moyane’s lawyer, Dali Mpofu, must not ask Gordhan about other people that he has accused of state capture.

Mpofu wanted to ask Gordhan about his allegations against former President Jacob Zuma and Public Protector Busisiwe Mkhwebane, saying that he had a propensity of accusing people without proof.

Gordhan has agreed with Mpofu that it would be arrogant to accuse anyone of state capture without evidence.

Zondo had to adjourn proceedings briefly to speak to the lawyers in chambers before he made his ruling.

“This question is going to be parked and if the need still exists for it, Mr Mpofu will come back to it later at the end of his questions.”

WATCH LIVE: State Capture Inquiry cross-examination of Minister Pravin Gordhan by Tom Moyane

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